Is There More To Baptism Than Symbolism?
Last week I was asked what i thought about infant baptism. Before I write about infant baptism I think there is a bit of foundation material that needs to be covered. If baptism is one thing than the conversation on who should be baptized goes one way. If baptism is something else than the conversation goes down a different road. I think a good place to start is with the question, is there more to baptism than symbolism? Is baptism more than just a public sign of faith and a symbolic step in the direction towards Jesus?
This has become one of those controversial topics in the church. It's one of the factors that distinguishes denominations. I expect to have people who don't interpret the texts the same way I do and I invite you to share why you see this differently and how it relates biblically.
If you are someone who doesn't know the material surrounding baptism I hope you are willing to go out and read the texts and learn about them. This really isn't a matter of our opinion but about what God has handed us which we should be trying to figure out.
If you are looking for a place to start with the differences you can check out baptism on studylight.org. Here you can get some background on the greek, the traditions, and so much more from more than one point of view.
In my study of this I am going to stay within scripture. In the conversation of baptism any parts that come up above and beyond the symbolic parts would be supernatural. Supernatural things are not something we can know all the ins and outs of. They are not something we can put under a scientific microscope and study. Anything beyond the natural water, words, and physical presence in baptism is something we have to trust the word of God on. If you don't trust the word of God that is a separate discussion.
Something Supernatural
The question of baptism having something supernatural to it is not a new question. Just look at Mark 11:30 where Jesus asks the chief priests, elders, and scribes, "Was the baptism of John from heaven, or from men?" Their response, in Mark 11:33, was "We do not know."
So, is it from heaven? Unlike the people who were being asked that question we have the New Testament scriptures to look at in search of answers.
Forgiveness of Sins
Baptism, as in ceremonial washing, had been around a long time before John became John the Baptist. This ceremonial washing (baptism) is something we find through the bible and something that was even around Jesus in His life. But, Johns baptism was different than just the ceremonial washing that had been going on. Luke 3:3 tells us about how Johns baptism was different where it says:
And he came into all the district around the Jordan, preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins;
Notice the forgiveness of sins? Johns baptism was about forgiveness. This was still in a time where there were sacrifices for forgiveness. Jesus hadn't come and his sacrifice had not happened for everyone yet. John preached a baptism that gave the person forgiveness of sins.
What about now? Jesus has come so we have forgiveness though his sacrifice. Doesn't this change baptism? These are a couple questions I was asking myself though this.
Connected To Christ
During Jesus time on this earth His disciples baptized people. John 3 - 4 talks about this baptism. But, after Jesus dies on the cross there seems to be a difference in baptism.
There is still this forgiveness of sins as Acts 2:38 says:
Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Looking deeper we find something more now as we can see in Colossians 2:12 where it says:
having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.
And Romans 6:4 says it even more clearly where it says:
We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.
These texts are saying that baptism ties us to Jesus death and resurrection. This is not something that could happen through symbolism. And, Jesus death and resurrection were supernatural events. How can we be tied to supernatural events? Only through the supernatural.
This is where the forgiveness of sins, that I wrote about above, comes into play. Through Jesus death and resurrection we are forgiven. So, it all ties together.
Baptism Without Belief
I have read about many people who have tried to be baptized right before they die to get to be forgiven. Many of these people were not believers but wanted to be forgiven just in case.
Matthew 28 sheds some clarity on this. It says, in verse 19, to baptize disciples. That is to baptize followers of Christ.
What about those who fall away? Or, those who got baptized without belief? Or, those who were baptized as infants but never grew up knowing Christ? The bible makes it clear that our salvation is though faith in Christ. Maybe this is where that unforgivable sin talked about in Matthew 12 and Mark 3 comes into play? You know, the sin of rejecting the Holy Spirit?
Belief without Baptism
What about belief without baptism? The bible talks about this, too. One of the most talked about examples is the man on the cross next to Jesus. He had faith and Jesus told him in Luke 23:43 "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise."
Conclusion
We don't need baptism to be saved (Luke 23). In Baptism we are tied to Christ, His death, and His resurrection (Romans 6:4). We are tied to His forgiveness via baptism (Colossians 2). This has to be a supernatural God thing because it sure isn't a human thing. Disciples of Christ should be baptized (Matthew 28).
I also think that this is something that we will never be able to understand as we would like to. There are so few details as to what is going on here. Baptism is one of those supernatural and perfect things that us natural and very imperfect people are just not able to completely understand. Luckily, God is perfect and faithful. Our imperfections don't hinder the work that God does here.
OK, this post is done. I have typed enough. Anyone care to beat it up? Or, support it?
Comments
#1 Matthew 28
I think you made a fundamental error in your comments on Matthew 28. You said, that we are "to baptize followers of Christ." However, that isn't what Matthew 28 says. Rather, in Matthew 28 Jesus tells us to make disciples and then goes on to identify how we make disciples ... by baptizing and teaching.
You don't baptize those who are disciples, you make disciples through baptism (and teaching).
#2 This is interesting.
This is interesting. Reading Matthew 28:19-20 it says "Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you."
From my perspective it says to be a disciple and then disciples are to be taught and baptized. I see disciples as the subject of these two commands. Logically speaking I can see how you have to know what something is before you can follow it. You have to know to go down a certain road before you can go down that road.
Can you provide some more detail on your reading of that? Is it something in the Greek that's lost to me a simple English reader ;-)?
You have sparked my curiosity. I can see this logically but would also like to see it scripturally.
#3 Get Pumped Up
Okay, you like to get yourself all pumped up to geek out, well, now it's time to get all pumped to Greek out!
First some basic grammar. Sentences are comprised of two parts, the subject and the predicate. Basically, the predicate modifies the subject.
So, in this sentence, "make disciples of all nations" is the subject ... it's what the sentence is about. How do we know that's the grammatical subject? The only other verbs in the sentence ("obey" and "commanded") are used to modify the participle "teaching" which in turn is linked to the primary verb of "make disciples" and it's relating noun, "nations".
This means all the stuff that comes before and after is the predicate and modifies the basic idea of "making disciples of all nations".
Interestingly enough, many people want to make "go" the primary verb, but it's actually a participle which means a far better translation would say something to the effect of, "As you go," or "In your going," which puts it in its rightful predicate position as it modifies the subject of the sentence.
Now, the words for "baptize" and "teach" are both nominative participles in the predicate position of the sentence which means that they identify the circumstances under which the verbal action of disciple making takes place. They could be described as participles of manner on how something (in this case disciple making) is accomplished.
As for references, check out Voelz's Fundamental Greek Grammar, Rogers and Rogers' The New Linguistic and Exegetical Key to the Greek New Testament, and Wallace's Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics.
So, anyone else feeling excited by all this grammar and Greek?
#4 sadly....
Sadly I am...... I wish (in a sick and twisted sense) that I knew that stuff.
Thanks for all that info.
#5 Baptism overrated
I don't mean to sound irreverent, but what matters is your spiritual connectedness and that you act conscientiously, especially in your dealings with others. If having some water put on your head in a ritual helps you with that, get baptized. It doesn't matter beyond that.
#6 Why?
Why do you say that? What is your scripture base?
I am not saying that how we treat others isn't important. But, there is more to our lives than how we treat others. There is also how we treat ourselves and God.
In any case what is the reason for your view of baptism scripturally?
Note: This is often my challenge for people. When there is something that is biblical I challenge them to share their biblical basis for something.
#7 It Depends
If you're running with the mindset that baptism is just some ritual the people go through to make some kind of statement, then yes, baptism is completely overrated because a far better statement is the life you live everyday. Of course this mindset isn't biblical.
However, if baptism is, as the Bible presents and Matt has laid out here, something that God does to you, then it's key in your connectedness. In other words, rather than people having to engage in the vain and pointless attempt of trying to connect themselves to God, in baptism, God is connecting Himself to you.
#8 I commend Matt for his
I commend Matt for his pusuit of spiritual things. Thanks to Joe also for his grammar lesson and the resources he listed.
I've tried twice to post this comment unsucessfully, so I'm going to keep it short and sweet.
Baptism alone does not save you.
The Bible does not state that baptism is just symbolic.
If we are not united with Christ in His death, will we be united in His Resurrection? "For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his." (Rom 6:5)
How are we united with Him in His death? (Rom. 6:3-5)
Why the sense of urgency for baptism in the New Testament?
(Acts 2:41; 8:36; 10:47; and 16:33)
Some were indeed baptized again. (Acts 19:3-5)
If a believer knows they need to be baptized and never does, I seriously doubt if that person will be saved.
There is a great free Bible program available for download called e-sword. You can look up any word in the Bible and find all the passages containing it. And for a modest donation you receive a ton of resources.
Thanks for your interest.
#9 Some good discussion here. I
Some good discussion here.
I agree that the NT presents Baptism as more than just a symbolic thing. That something(supernatural?)actually happens during this ritual. For the early Christians it seemed compulsory.
But... When I read Matt28, It truly seems to be saying that disciples are to be taught and baptized. If the brilliant(no sarcasm intended) translators of the NIV wanted to make it clear they would have said something like - go and make disciples of all nations(by)baptizing and teaching them. But these experts did not add the word "by". Without the "by" , it can at the least have the meaning of - disciples should be baptized and taught.
And to me that's what the sentence sounds like it's saying. Thanks for the grammar explanation but it didn't convince me otherwise.(however I suck at grammar). If a simple "by" would have cleared it up, why didn't they put it in. Maybe there is some ambiguity in the Greek or maybe there is a bias going on here??
#10 Transliteration
When it comes to the words in the bible we need to be careful in what we are reading for two reasons. First, is the context. The bible was written by and to middle eastern people about 2000 years ago. The context of the message is no where near the context we have today making it easy for us not to get the point of what they are say.
Second, what we are reading are translations and transliterations. The difference is between a translation which takes what was written and tries to translate that into english as accurately as it can be. The most accurate translation is the NASV which is hard to read. Transliterations are when they try to clean up the language to make it more readable to people today. It's not a direct translation.
Note: This is why I'm a fan of all of us having teachers who can go back to the original languages and have been taught the context so they can pass it on to us.
The NIV is a transliteration and one that's considered fairly bland. In an effort to not upset political parties in the church it was watered down rather than relaying what was written as strongly as it is in the original texts. For example, there is a place in the Hebrew where it talks about being as dirty as a used menstrual rag (considered so dirty it's unclean to a Hebrew of the day). The NIV English translation just calls it a dirty rag. It misses the strength of the message.
If you want a translation check out the NASV or ESV which are the two most literal translations to English.
I've sorted though a number of texts written by experts in the Greek here and a common thread. The way to make disciples is by baptizing and teaching. That is the method to do so as the text says. It doesn't say go and make disciples and then baptize and teach them. It says to make disciples by doing that. There are a number of books on this that can break down the text and walk through it in context. These books are mostly used by seminary students digging in fairly deep.
My point is that you don't base you belief or disbelief off this on a weak English translation. This is something that needs to be taken from the message of the original text in context.
#11 Your comment
Excellent
#12 baptism
The Bible says in Ephesians chap.4 vs 5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, there is only one baptism, that men are commanded to be baptized in. The only way a person can know for sure he or she has the Holy Spirit according to scripture is. Acts 2-38 and Romans 6-3through7, Colossians 2-12, Matt. 28-19through20. Remember Jesus told us to obey his commands not our ideas or feelings or personal views.
#13 Baptism overrated?
Obviously you do not know scripture. Let me say this friend, good intentions are not good enough. Baptism is not a ritual. It is a command given by our Lord ad Savior Jesus Christ.
{1 Peter 3:21) should we just scratch this verse out of the Bible? Wow, talk about an infant. God Bless You
#14 Baptism
1 Peter 3:21 says,
and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you
also - not the removal of dirt from the body but the
pledge of a good conscience toward God. It saves you
by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
The Bible never calls baptism symbolic. Are we saved by our faith? Yes, we are, but when are we saved by our faith? Before that faith manifests itself into action or after? (Hebrews 11:30) shows that the walls of Jericho fell by faith, but the author shows that action was involved. Is baptism a works? Its something we do like repenting, praying, believing. But not in the sense that we are obligating God to save us like it says in Romans 4:4. Some say that we cannot be saved by a physical act, but Jesus dying on the cross was a physical act. We are just redeeming a coupon, just collecting on something already promised by God. Salvation being conditional on our response in no way detracts from God's generosity or His grace.
In (Romans 6:4) it says that the "new life" begins in baptism. How can a person be "born again" then die in baptsim and be "born again", again? It doesn't make sense.
(Acts 2:36~39) They already believed (v37) but are still not saved. They must repent first and then be baptized for the forgiveness of sins.
James 2:24
#15 The so-out-of-style baptisms we endure
I have almost an entire webpage on my website that is devoted to the subject of baptism, along with comments relating to circumcision and communion as well. All of these need re-evaluating in terms of being pertinent today and in accord with what was Jesus' practice during his lifetime, and the troubles and excesses the early Church became enmeshed with. It is unfortunate that Scripture contradicts itself uniformly on these topics, and yet these very practices become the litmus test of the different denominations' and cults' faithful. What is controversial should not determine the "heaven or hell" to one's own--or anyone else's--future! Take away the fact that some clergymen earn handsome salaries directly related to communicants' need for transubstantiated wafers and priestly absolution--when, in fact, easily 5% of all priests are in personal sin significantly more severe in its nature than those they absolve--and you have a paying, captive and disserviced audience. But Christ came to set us free; free from Pharisaical attempts at holiness through works, and fear. Yes, fear itself. So check out my webpage at http://berkeleyversion.com/baptism.htm to learn "my take" on baptism, and you can take advantage of a free CD recording of Gospel According to John in the Berkeley Version, that I recorded back in the year 2003. No charge; even shipping is free. Thanks for letting me give my little spiel here.
#16 A few thoughts
First, in your article you didn't point out any contradictions. So, I'm not sure where you are going when you say scripture contradicts itself.
Second, you don't need to be baptized to be saved. Scriptures tells us to be baptized but not that it's a requirement for Gods salvation. There is a difference.
There is a lot of focus on the time when we will die these days. Many people are looking to be sure they are saved when they die. That's the reason they get baptized, the reason they go to church on Sundays, and the reason they call themselves a Christian. That's now what Christianity is about and the focus is all wrong. Baptism is not a means of salvation. Faith is.
For that matter, who has more sin doesn't really enter into the equation of baptism. It's not about how sinful we are. We are all sinners who have a lot of sin.
In the future I'd suggest not going around to old posts giving your spiel like you did. It's not in a format that gets a conversation going. It's more likely to start an argument, draw lines, and not do anyone any good. Scripture asks us to build others up. I'd suggest figuring out how to share that way.